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Hyundai can't do maths

Alan_F

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I would normally agree with you. But, when they are selling at MSRP which is waaaaay over cost to make it.....they are making money. There is no penalty for prepay. So you can make extra principal payments. You can also do that to any loans you take out without pre payment penalties.
Hyundai Motor America does not own the dealers who sold you the car. The dealers are independent businesses (by state law).

Whether you pay the dealer MSRP or pay $1000 under invoice, it makes no difference to Hyundai Motor America or Hyundai Finance. The amount of money that Hyundai Motor America gets from the dealer doesn't change based on how much you paid or how much profit the dealer makes.
 
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Eric2203

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What a coincidence that you joined this forum today just for this thread. Do you know the thread starter?
Well since I am a CPA, I do understand finances. One thing I do know is that finance companies are not set up to handle transactions manually, and if they had to do them manually they would have to charge extra fees or higher interest rates to hire extra people to handle that work.

I guess you are admitting that you know the original thread starter and joined this forum to support Eric, and I notice that your forum name is SADIE2020 and the original thread starter is Eric2203, a strikingly similar format.
There something wrong with you, man. Do you believe in conspiracy theories too? I don't know that Sadie person. Nor do I need to get someone to back me up on an internet forum. Again, check out my post history on all the Palisade forums and that will be obvious.
 

SADIE2020

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Hyundai Motor America does not own the dealers who sold you the car. The dealers are independent businesses (by state law).

Whether you pay the dealer MSRP or pay $1000 under invoice, it makes no difference to Hyundai Motor America or Hyundai Finance. The amount of money that Hyundai Motor America gets from the dealer doesn't change based on how much you paid or how much profit the dealer makes.
No...really? Wow...mind blown?
 

saxman242

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Whether you pay the dealer MSRP or pay $1000 under invoice, it makes no difference to Hyundai Motor America or Hyundai Finance.
Well, you know, other than the extra money from interest on the loan due to the higher financed amount. Of course, as a CPA, you knew that.



Crap, my screen name also has numbers in it.
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KansasLimited

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I bank with PenFed and every time I make an extra or regular payment it extends my payment out another month. Currently, my loan does not require payment until August. I continue to manually pay the next payment when my budget allows (usually early which is why I am ahead).

I do pay attention to the interest/principal paid each time. Since it is a simple loan, the payment covers the accumulated amount of interest on the loan since the last payment and the remainder is credited to the principal. (The CPA on the thread should be able to confirm this)

With Hyundai can you just continue to make additional payments and just ignore the payment due date? My guess is that the automatic payment may not trigger until the future payment comes due. But, I know with a few of my checking accounts I can have them automatically send a payment every month. Just a thought of an alternative way to approach the problem.
 

Eric2203

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I bank with PenFed and every time I make an extra or regular payment it extends my payment out another month. Currently, my loan does not require payment until August. I continue to manually pay the next payment when my budget allows (usually early which is why I am ahead).

I do pay attention to the interest/principal paid each time. Since it is a simple loan, the payment covers the accumulated amount of interest on the loan since the last payment and the remainder is credited to the principal. (The CPA on the thread should be able to confirm this)

With Hyundai can you just continue to make additional payments and just ignore the payment due date? My guess is that the automatic payment may not trigger until the future payment comes due. But, I know with a few of my checking accounts I can have them automatically send a payment every month. Just a thought of an alternative way to approach the problem.
Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. I just continue paying as I want to and ignore their due date. I do it manually though, not automatically. That way, if there is ever a time where I can't actually pay extra $ (or vice-versa: I have extra cash I want to pay towards the loan), I can vary the amount.

My main issue is that they're not calculating the balance correctly every month. It should drop by the amount going towards the principal, and, while it is indeed dropping, it's not by the amount that they show should be going towards the principal. That's a huge problem, because interest calculations are based on that.

The secondary issue is the whole go towards principal vs. go towards next month payment. As I described in my original post, the first 2 months, they understood what I wanted without issues, applied the extra to the principal, and reset the next payment for the next month to its full amount. No issues there, aside from having to call them to do that. They seemed to be used to this and had a process for it. It even shows as such in the payment history, where an extra line is added for that purpose.

Now, however... they basically are not doing it that way (despite my asking 3 times now), and it turns out that they think I've paid enough to skip at least 1 payment. Which is only possible if you include the extra $ from my first 2 payments. And as I just mentioned, those were supposed to have gone towards principal, according to them and the payment history on the website.

They also show I can skip 2 payments, instead of 1. That's nice... but completely wrong mathematically.

So in conclusion, my first 2 payments went towards principal AND next month's payment. Unclear on the next 3 payments (4 now, actually). I doubt they're that generous! Combine this issue with the balance not updating correctly, and it's easy to see that something's broken in their system...
 

KansasLimited

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Since I am not familiar with the Hyundai finance site, my assumption is that you cannot see the balance update once the check clears, only with the monthly statement?

With PenFed, it updates the balance immediately and I can tell exactly how much went to pay accumulated interest and how much went to principal reduction.

I see where your frustration lies if the math is not adding up.
 

Eric2203

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Since I am not familiar with the Hyundai finance site, my assumption is that you cannot see the balance update once the check clears, only with the monthly statement?

With PenFed, it updates the balance immediately and I can tell exactly how much went to pay accumulated interest and how much went to principal reduction.

I see where your frustration lies if the math is not adding up.
Yes, actually you can see everything online within 24h (electronic payment, not a check). And you get the details of principal vs. interest. That's how I know it's wrong.

By comparison, their statement is almost useless: it only lists the payoff amount, not the balance, and the last payment. If all I had was the statement, they could screw me over without me knowing! Not saying that's what's happening - I think their system is broken somehow.
 

Alan_F

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Yes, actually you can see everything online within 24h (electronic payment, not a check). And you get the details of principal vs. interest. That's how I know it's wrong.

By comparison, their statement is almost useless: it only lists the payoff amount, not the balance, and the last payment. If all I had was the statement, they could screw me over without me knowing! Not saying that's what's happening - I think their system is broken somehow.
In addition to being a CPA, I also have worked in IT for many years in software development, often working on creating various financial systems. All software has bugs, and no software has all the features that everyone wants.

I think you have clearly pointed out some of the limitations of the auto financing system used by Hyundai. It apparently is not clear to their systems the difference between an early payment of the regular monthly payment due, versus an extra payment that you make with the expectation of having your principal reduced.

But as I mentioned before, given the apparent limitations of their computer system as you have clearly described, I don't blame them for not wanting to have someone manually correct this every month (or every time you make an additional payment). The economics of running an auto financing company at very low interest rates does not account for them hiring extra people to make a lot of manual adjustments.

People paying $45-$50K for a Hyundai automobile is probably not something they are used to, and the kind of customers they typically have sold cars to don't usually want to pay down their loan balance faster than necessary on a regular basis (other than paying it off completely). I remember when I bought a Hyundai in 2009, I paid cash for it, and the finance guy at the dealer almost had a heart attack and said he had never seen that before working at a Hyundai dealer.

Now that you have let everyone know the limitations of the Hyundai finance system, people can decide for themselves if they want to use some other financing when they buy a Hyundai, or purchase another auto brand which has a financing system that meets their needs.
 

Eric2203

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In addition to being a CPA, I also have worked in IT for many years in software development, often working on creating various financial systems. All software has bugs, and no software has all the features that everyone wants.

I think you have clearly pointed out some of the limitations of the auto financing system used by Hyundai. It apparently is not clear to their systems the difference between an early payment of the regular monthly payment due, versus an extra payment that you make with the expectation of having your principal reduced.

But as I mentioned before, given the apparent limitations of their computer system as you have clearly described, I don't blame them for not wanting to have someone manually correct this every month (or every time you make an additional payment). The economics of running an auto financing company at very low interest rates does not account for them hiring extra people to make a lot of manual adjustments.

People paying $45-$50K for a Hyundai automobile is probably not something they are used to, and the kind of customers they typically have sold cars to don't usually want to pay down their loan balance faster than necessary on a regular basis (other than paying it off completely). I remember when I bought a Hyundai in 2009, I paid cash for it, and the finance guy at the dealer almost had a heart attack and said he had never seen that before working at a Hyundai dealer.

Now that you have let everyone know the limitations of the Hyundai finance system, people can decide for themselves if they want to use some other financing when they buy a Hyundai, or purchase another auto brand which has a financing system that meets their needs.
Couple of flaws in your reasoning.

One, they clearly have a process to do what I'm asking them to do. They knew right away what I meant and did it correctly for my first 2 payments. This flies in the face of your claim that they are not willing or set up to do that. I've mentioned that 3 times now and you continue to ignore it in order to peddle your hypothesis. Enough.

Second, and @saxman242 took the words right out of my mouth, you're conveniently forgetting about Genesis with your claim that they don't sell or finance cars at that price point.

Oh and let me be clear about one thing: whether they're set up and/or willing to handle extra $ on monthly payments, that's not a excuse for screwing up a balance calculation and resulting interest.
 

Alan_F

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Couple of flaws in your reasoning.

One, they clearly have a process to do what I'm asking them to do. They knew right away what I meant and did it correctly for my first 2 payments. This flies in the face of your claim that they are not willing or set up to do that. I've mentioned that 3 times now and you continue to ignore it in order to peddle your hypothesis. Enough.
Yes, they have a manual process. I explained why they are not keen about doing that every month on a manual basis. Also manual processes depend on the skill and knowledge of the person you happen to get on the phone, which may be lacking in some cases.

Second, and @saxman242 took the words right out of my mouth, you're conveniently forgetting about Genesis with your claim that they don't sell or finance cars at that price point.
Genesis is a separate division now. When I bought my 2009 Hyundai Genesis with all cash, the finance guy was shocked.

Also, I did not mean to suggest that they never sell $45-$50K cars, just that many of there employees are not accustomed to it, and their systems are not set up for those kind of customers who are more likely to want to pay down their principal every month (over and above the normal monthly payment). By your admission, their systems are not set up correctly to automatically handle that without human intervention.

Oh and let me be clear about one thing: whether they're set up and/or willing to handle extra $ on monthly payments, that's not a excuse for screwing up a balance calculation and resulting interest.
Fine. The Hyundai Finance system is crap, and their employees are incompetent. Next time you can buy a different brand other than Hyundai, or if you buy a Hyundai you can get your own financing with a lender that processes your payments to meet your requirements.
 

Alan_F

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Other than that whole entire genesis brand...
Hyundai Motors is going to the huge expense and trouble of setting up a completely separate physical dealership network for Genesis, precisely because customers who spend that kind of money don't want to do business with Hyundai dealers.
 

saxman242

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Hyundai Motors is going to the huge expense and trouble of setting up a completely separate physical dealership network for Genesis, precisely because customers who spend that kind of money don't want to do business with Hyundai dealers.
Yes, but they use the same finance company, which is the relevant part of this conversation.
 

Alan_F

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Yes, but they use the same finance company, which is the relevant part of this conversation.
Hyundai recognizes the problem that Hyundai dealerships (and maybe Hyundai Finance) are not very good in dealing with customers who buy $45-50K cars. I never said they have fixed that problem. It's going to be a long work in progress.

There are deficiencies in the Hyundai Finance computer system. OK. My original point was maybe the importance of that in the scheme of the universe is not that big a deal. I guess it has something to do with people being at home all the time now, and having nothing to do but get on their computer and complain about every little thing.
 

Eric2203

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Yes, they have a manual process. I explained why they are not keen about doing that every month on a manual basis. Also manual processes depend on the skill and knowledge of the person you happen to get on the phone, which may be lacking in some cases.


Genesis is a separate division now. When I bought my 2009 Hyundai Genesis with all cash, the finance guy was shocked.

Also, I did not mean to suggest that they never sell $45-$50K cars, just that many of there employees are not accustomed to it, and their systems are not set up for those kind of customers who are more likely to want to pay down their principal every month (over and above the normal monthly payment). By your admission, their systems are not set up correctly to automatically handle that without human intervention.


Fine. The Hyundai Finance system is crap, and their employees are incompetent. Next time you can buy a different brand other than Hyundai, or if you buy a Hyundai you can get your own financing with a lender that processes your payments to meet your requirements.
This entire post is full of speculation. You don't know how manual the process is. Just because the default is to not apply the extra payment towards the principal doesn't mean they don't have an easy way to do so. You don't know whether they're keen on doing that every month, or not. They had no issue doing it for me twice, as I explained, and knew exactly what I meant. The price of the car has nothing to do with whether they can handle this. The system either does or does not, regardless of how much the car is worth.

Point is, you have no idea what's happening at Hyundai Motor Finance.

Assuming the system isn't set up for that because they usually sell cheap cars, and that therefore buyers are people who can barely afford them and only pay the minimum required monthly payment, is some serious stereotyping and judgmental bullshit from you. I know people who have bought the cheapest car they could because, for them, it's an appliance to go from A to B, and they don't care about anything else, including creature comforts. Yet, they could have afforded cars that are way more expensive than a Palisade without even blinking. There are also people who buy cheap cars for their kids or grand-kids, because it's the kid's first car, and pay cash for them (or pay them off quickly).

Stop assuming you know what people do and why. You don't. And stop automatically putting people who buy cheap Hyundais in a "can barely afford a car" bucket. That's incredibly judgmental and condescending. You really need to be put back in your place.

Hyundai recognizes the problem that Hyundai dealerships (and maybe Hyundai Finance) are not very good in dealing with customers who buy $45-50K cars. I never said they have fixed that problem. It's going to be a long work in progress.

There are deficiencies in the Hyundai Finance computer system. OK. My original point was maybe the importance of that in the scheme of the universe is not that big a deal. I guess it has something to do with people being at home all the time now, and having nothing to do but get on their computer and complain about every little thing.
For the second time, I never said it was a bigger deal than what's going on right now in the world, so stop putting words in my mouth and assuming (there you go again) that you know what's important to me. COVID-19 is certainly the most important concern for me, and everyone else. I do my best to not leave the house and follow social distancing guidelines, contrary to a massive amount of morons who think it's a good idea to ignore these recommendations (and even government orders, in some cases), or who think that because we're in 'Murica, they must be free to do whatever the hell they want at any time and screw the consequences and everyone else. You just have to watch the news to see these idiots in action.

Am I clear enough as to what I feel is the most important thing right now? And about how I feel about people who dismiss COVID-19 concerns?

But that doesn't mean I'm not going to talk about anything else at all until such time as this crisis is over. That's an idiotic expectation. What you're doing is using COVID-19 as an excuse to shame everyone who posts something you disagree with. That's not going to work, buddy. I can post about something that is an issue to me and still rank it as less important than COVID-19. The two are not mutually exclusive, as you seem to imply. Do I need to put a disclaimer in every post I make that COVID-19 is still more important than whatever we're talking about?

Your pathetic attempt at shaming me for posting by using COVID-19 is pretty transparent. It's not going to work and it's certainly not going to stop me from posting.

To address your last comments, this issue is not a "little" thing when it affects interest calculation and what I'm paying. These dollars add up. The fact that you can't comprehend that as a CPA doesn't inspire confidence in your skill set.

And you do not know me. Not that it's any of your business, but I am working from home, not just sitting around. In fact, I'm often working longer hours from home than I would from the office, because I'm saving 2 hours of commuting every day. I have plenty to do. But it does obviously give me a little more time here and there. That doesn't mean I have "nothing to do", as you put it. That's more judgmental and condescending bullshit from you, without having a clue what you're talking about.

In fact, I could be as judgmental and as much of an a-hole as you, and argue that you also have nothing better to do than pick fights on the internet. You sure do respond to posts very quickly...
 
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Alan_F

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This entire post is full of speculation. You don't know how manual the process is.
The original poster has explained that he had to call Hyundai Finance more than once to get his excess payments to be a reduction in principal, and not just paying the monthly amount due early.

I am not going to respond to your personal attacks.
 

Eric2203

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The original poster has explained that he had to call Hyundai Finance more than once to get his excess payments to be a reduction in principal, and not just paying the monthly amount due early.

I am not going to respond to your personal attacks.
I am the original poster.

You've been attacking me throughout this entire thread. You deserve what you get in return.
 
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