hmm HDA does not like L.A. Freeways or Interchanges

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

HDA works good on rural highways, and some of the wider less urban highways in L.A. But it most definitely does not like the East L.A. through Downtown, North Hollywood, and Pasadena freeways.

on every one of them it checks out and says "check HDA system" and flips to standard SCC. always in the same areas, 5N to the 710N, 5N to the 101N 10W or 110N or S. 2 to the 134, 134 to the 210, 210 to the 605.


works fine on the 60 and 10 until I hit the 710 area/ east L.A. then it errors and stays off until I am past downtown and north Hollywood.

seems odd that it has such issues on intercity freeways, the whole point IMO of Drive Assist is to assist in these horribly congested areas. SCC works well enough, but it stops LKA below 35mph, HDA keeps it active to 0 and back up.

 

[Eric2203]

seems odd that it has such issues on intercity freeways, the whole point IMO of Drive Assist is to assist in these horribly congested areas. SCC works well enough, but it stops LKA below 35mph, HDA keeps it active to 0 and back up.

Not quite. When SCC is on, regardless of whether the road is HDA-enabled or not, LFA (not LKA) is also on. That's the steering wheel symbol, as opposed to the road symbol for LKA. And LFA does work all the way to 0 mph.

The difference between having SCC on an HDA road and a non-HDA road is that it will bring you to a full stop and resume driving again for up to 30s instead of 3s on non-HDA road (you have to press the gas pedal or hit the RES button on the SCC to resume driving beyond those times).

HDA also provides that feature where it automatically adjusts your speed to that of the speed limit of the road, but that requires you driving at exactly the speed limit for it to work, which few people do (you get AUTO on the cluster when that's on).

HDA may improve LFA, but there's no clear confirmation of that from Hyundai. Maybe that's what you're noticing.

 

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Not quite. When SCC is on, regardless of whether the road is HDA-enabled or not, LFA (not LKA) is also on. That's the steering wheel symbol, as opposed to the road symbol for LKA. And LFA does work all the way to 0 mph.

The difference between having SCC on an HDA road and a non-HDA road is that it will bring you to a full stop and resume driving again for up to 30s instead of 3s on non-HDA road (you have to press the gas pedal or hit the RES button on the SCC to resume driving beyond those times).

HDA also provides that feature where it automatically adjusts your speed to that of the speed limit of the road, but that requires you driving at exactly the speed limit for it to work, which few people do (you get AUTO on the cluster when that's on).

HDA may improve LFA, but there's no clear confirmation of that from Hyundai. Maybe that's what you're noticing.

LFA doesn't work from what I can see with just SCC, according to Hyundai it is supposed to be active when Cruise is active, but the Palisade bounces all over the lane when HDA goes off, same as my G80 used to (and it didn't have LFA only LKA).

With HDA active the vehicle tracks the center of the lane and is pretty stable, when HDA goes wonky the truck starts to weave between the lines. Maybe as you same HDA enhances LFA, don't know.


what bugs me is that HDA gets very confused on the mutli-level freeways and interchanges in L.A. I'm used to SCC, used it for past 6 years, with my Lexus and G80, requires me to steer but does the stop and go (with minor annoyance of tapping the accel pedal). Which appears to be all I get in my area.

HDA on my drive from AZ to CA worked fantastic, over 90% of the drive I barely touched the steering or brake. I noticed on my G80 and also on the Palisade that as long as there are no other cars around the "keep hands on steering wheel" doesn't come up very often.

 

[bruesjoh04]

LFA doesn't work from what I can see with just SCC, according to Hyundai it is supposed to be active when Cruise is active, but the Palisade bounces all over the lane when HDA goes off, same as my G80 used to (and it didn't have LFA only LKA).

With HDA active the vehicle tracks the center of the lane and is pretty stable, when HDA goes wonky the truck starts to weave between the lines. Maybe as you same HDA enhances LFA, don't know.


what bugs me is that HDA gets very confused on the mutli-level freeways and interchanges in L.A. I'm used to SCC, used it for past 6 years, with my Lexus and G80, requires me to steer but does the stop and go (with minor annoyance of tapping the accel pedal). Which appears to be all I get in my area.

HDA on my drive from AZ to CA worked fantastic, over 90% of the drive I barely touched the steering or brake. I noticed on my G80 and also on the Palisade that as long as there are no other cars around the "keep hands on steering wheel" doesn't come up very often.

If you’d rather just have the steering be up to you, turn off LFA in your settings. Then the system won’t steer for you while you have cruise on. And if you don’t want any steering nannies, period, also turn off the LKA by pressing the button to the left of your steering wheel.

 

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

If you’d rather just have the steering be up to you, turn off LFA in your settings. Then the system won’t steer for you while you have cruise on. And if you don’t want any steering nannies, period, also turn off the LKA by pressing the button to the left of your steering wheel.

I want the LFA and LKA systems active, my point is that when HDA shuts down due to whatever issue it is having on these routes, and only SCC is working the LFA system doesn't appear to work as well if at all.


SCC/LKA behaves exactly the same way my G80 did, drifts around the lane and require a foot tap or resume button tap when it comes to a full stop and doesn't move again for 3 seconds. Drove the G80 like this for 3 years, I actively keep my hands on the wheel for the required resistance for LKA.

HDA/LFA is much closer to "autonomous" driving and doesn't require me to actively hold on to the steering wheel, and it stays centered as long as the BSM and Front sonar don't detect other vehicles, and from what I have experienced so far is very good at keeping the vehicle center and tracking the lanes. When it works. on my drive from AZ to CA I was the only vehicle for over 100 miles and I didn't touch the steering wheel and never got the "keep hands on steering wheel" alert until I approached another vehicle.


my complaint is that HDA falls on its face and shuts down in the most congested highway/freeway areas of Los Angeles, which to me defeats the purpose of HDA, traffic in this area is always stop and go and having HDA work to full stop and re-engage and maintain lane centering is what HDA is for IMO, but it simply doesn't work in this area, it shuts itself down, and it comes back when I have cleared the areas where the 5/101/2/10/60/110 freeways all converge.

it works find on open highways, it doesn't work on inter-city highways with heavy congestion and multiple highways merging together.

 

[Gene]

Is it the HDA system or more likely it is the highway programing for the maps that is at fault.
Also don't forget the map programming is mostly relying on the maps done by google.
Some of these maps are 2 years old and GPS can get really confused when one highway
passes over another. HDA was not designed for in city driving

 

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Is it the HDA system or more likely it is the highway programing for the maps that is at fault.
Also don't forget the map programming is mostly relying on the maps done by google.
Some of these maps are 2 years old and GPS can get really confused when one highway
passes over another. HDA was not designed for in city driving

pretty sure the freeways in Los Angeles are far older than 2 years. most are 60 plus years. GPS doesn't have an issue, it knows where I am and is tracking just fine, tells me which lanes to be in for the interchanges and knows which interchange I am taking.

While it might be confused as it goes over at crisscrossed overpass or underpass, that doesn't account for the 5-7 miles of straight highway with no other interchanges when HDA just decides it doesn't want to work any longer.

I get the mergers, that makes sense, but this isn't inter city, this is highway, and it goes for a good 5 plus miles after it drops out before it comes back, and it comes back where one highway ends and becomes a surface road.

the others it just stops working until I am past all of downtown and north Hollywood and the highway opens use from a 4 lane to a 6 lane.

I am on a highway, it should work on that highway regardless of whether that highway is rural or urban. I wouldn't expect the system to work on city streets I do expect it to work on highways with a 65mph limit.

 

[Eric2203]

LFA doesn't work from what I can see with just SCC, according to Hyundai it is supposed to be active when Cruise is active, but the Palisade bounces all over the lane when HDA goes off, same as my G80 used to (and it didn't have LFA only LKA).

With HDA active the vehicle tracks the center of the lane and is pretty stable, when HDA goes wonky the truck starts to weave between the lines. Maybe as you same HDA enhances LFA, don't know.


what bugs me is that HDA gets very confused on the mutli-level freeways and interchanges in L.A. I'm used to SCC, used it for past 6 years, with my Lexus and G80, requires me to steer but does the stop and go (with minor annoyance of tapping the accel pedal). Which appears to be all I get in my area.

HDA on my drive from AZ to CA worked fantastic, over 90% of the drive I barely touched the steering or brake. I noticed on my G80 and also on the Palisade that as long as there are no other cars around the "keep hands on steering wheel" doesn't come up very often.

If you see the steering wheel icon and it’s green then LFA is active. If you want to make sure it works, try it on a secondary road (no HDA) where you can enable the SCC safely. If it starts bouncing around then maybe you have a problem with your car.

 

[Eric2203]

Is it the HDA system or more likely it is the highway programing for the maps that is at fault.
Also don't forget the map programming is mostly relying on the maps done by google.
Some of these maps are 2 years old and GPS can get really confused when one highway
passes over another. HDA was not designed for in city driving

Gene, the maps come from a company called Here (used to be Navteq, then Nokia). It has nothing to do with Google maps.

Also, for reference: HERE and HYUNDAI MNSOFT expand collaboration to advance global HD maps and location services

 

[saxman242]

I have not had issues with most of the freeways in the LA area.

Interchanges may be a different story. I've had mine drop off momentarily on the interchange from the 14 to the 5 and the 5 to the 405, for example.

The system is relying on the map data having these areas listed as highways, not just being in the system. An interchange may not be classified properly. Also possible that the lane markings in the area that you're going through have worn down/aren't clear, etc. We all know how well California maintains their roads.

 

[Gene]

Gene, the maps come from a company called Here (used to be Navteq, then Nokia). It has nothing to do with Google maps.

Also, for reference: HERE and HYUNDAI MNSOFT expand collaboration to advance global HD maps and location services

Does anyone else travel that same route with a Palisade? does theirs do the same?

Yes I know HERE is starting to provide the mapping for Hyundai. They have worked with KIA for some time.
They only started working with Hyundai in 2019 and our new maps should be theirs. But the older maps
used by Hyundai and still in our latest update were based on Navteq companies use of Googles mapping vehicles,
Navteq didn't do the mapping their self only the programming Much of MNSofts are still based on that.
They are not going to be used any more. That has to be a big job doing all that mapping and I would understand
why it takes time, probably MNSoft is slower to integrate maps in to their software updates than HERE mapping
I have several new streets near me, that have been here for two years,and don't even show on the maps

 

[Eric2203]

Does anyone else travel that same route with a Palisade? does theirs do the same?

Yes I know HERE is starting to provide the mapping for Hyundai. They have worked with KIA for some time.
They only started working with Hyundai in 2019 and our new maps should be theirs. But the older maps
used by Hyundai and still in our latest update were based on Navteq companies use of Googles mapping vehicles,
Navteq didn't do the mapping their self only the programming Much of MNSofts are still based on that.
They are not going to be used any more. That has to be a big job doing all that mapping and I would understand
why it takes time, probably MNSoft is slower to integrate maps in to their software updates than HERE mapping
I have several new streets near me, that have been here for two years,and don't even show on the maps

That link I gave you says this: "Since 2005, HERE has provided HYUNDAI MNSOFT with global map data for Hyundai KIA vehicles." HERE didn't just start providing data to the Hyundai/Kia group in 2019. It's been doing it for 16 years as Navteq, Nokia and now HERE.

As I said, HERE was Navteq and also Nokia. Navteq created their own maps, they never used Google Maps. Navteq was born in the 80s, long before Google even existed. In fact, Google Maps used Navteq data initially, then moved to TeleAtlas data when Nokia bought Navteq, then started doing it themselves.

 

[Gene]

Gee then Hyundai integrates Google Maps features into its cars
and other sites even hyundai didn't know what they were talking about
when they started integrating google map navigation via blue link in the cars as early as 2013

 

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

I have not had issues with most of the freeways in the LA area.

Interchanges may be a different story. I've had mine drop off momentarily on the interchange from the 14 to the 5 and the 5 to the 405, for example.

The system is relying on the map data having these areas listed as highways, not just being in the system. An interchange may not be classified properly. Also possible that the lane markings in the area that you're going through have worn down/aren't clear, etc. We all know how well California maintains their roads.

I get that interchanges will and should drop off, but as stated HDA drops off and doesn't come back for miles.

I will note that today I saw an interesting message on the Nav I have never seen before.

yesterday I turned off the HU, something I rarely do, so when I got in the car this morning it was on that screen saver page and said Media is Turned off or some such.

when I connected my iphone to carplay then powered on the HU, I got a notice that when connected to Carplay or Android Auto HDA "may not function correctly". Never seen that alert before, but never powered on the HU after connecting Carplay, usually connect carplay then start car and HU picks up where it left off.

So apparently Carplay might have some type of interference with HDA, if I can get the alert to come back up I will take a screen shot of it.

 

[Eric2203]

Gee then Hyundai integrates Google Maps features into its cars
and other sites even hyundai didn't know what they were talking about
when they started integrating google map navigation via blue link in the cars as early as 2013

Gene, that's for when you use Blue Link to ask for a specific place, instead of using the built-in nav. As you know, that connects to a server. Based on that article, they are using Google's API to find those places. It clearly talks about using the API to access the continuously-updated list of "Places" and sending the data to the car.

This is not related to whose map database they use on the built-in nav, which is Navteq/Nokia/HERE.

We're talking about two different things here.

I get that interchanges will and should drop off, but as stated HDA drops off and doesn't come back for miles.

I will note that today I saw an interesting message on the Nav I have never seen before.

yesterday I turned off the HU, something I rarely do, so when I got in the car this morning it was on that screen saver page and said Media is Turned off or some such.

when I connected my iphone to carplay then powered on the HU, I got a notice that when connected to Carplay or Android Auto HDA "may not function correctly". Never seen that alert before, but never powered on the HU after connecting Carplay, usually connect carplay then start car and HU picks up where it left off.

So apparently Carplay might have some type of interference with HDA, if I can get the alert to come back up I will take a screen shot of it.

I've never seen that message. Very strange. Have you tried the interchange with your phone unplugged?

 

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Gene, that's for when you use Blue Link to ask for a specific place, instead of using the built-in nav. As you know, that connects to a server. Based on that article, they are using Google's API to find those places. It clearly talks about using the API to access the continuously-updated list of "Places" and sending the data to the car.

This is not related to whose map database they use on the built-in nav, which is Navteq/Nokia/HERE.

We're talking about two different things here.



I've never seen that message. Very strange. Have you tried the interchange with your phone unplugged?

no, not yet, I will try it next week I cycle to work tuesday - friday, won't drive the truck again on that route until next monday

 

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

so it rained last night and this morning so no cycling today.

took the Palisade.

so it does appear that Carplay has an impact on HDA. Used HDA on the same route, without GPS running (didn't map my route) it died on the interchange only and came back immediately after I was on the new highway on the first freeway change.

I then added my work and mapped it and as it passed through the L.A. 4-level where the 5/101/10/110 all meet and where it usually just quits, it stayed fully active regardless of the interchanges.


will try opposite tonight with CarPlay running and with and without OEM GPS routing.