Anyone selling at MSRP in DMV area?

[elp_jc]

Everything you mentioned was set in motion by the previous administration, so you started with a false statement. Just cut it out, and go back to the subject at hand. Or buy a Palisade already, before everybody starts 'ignoring' you.

 

[Alan_F]

Everything you mentioned was set in motion by the previous administration, so you started with a false statement. Just cut it out, and go back to the subject at hand. Or buy a Palisade already, before everybody starts 'ignoring' you.

The Federal Reserve is an independent agency, although the Chairman was nominated by the previous President. You are the one who is making this political, not me. The Federal Reserve is out of their minds trying to flood the economy with liquidity when there are not enough workers to take the jobs that are open. There are 30% more job openings then there are unemployed people. As far as fiscal policy, the Congress and President are trying to flood the economy with even more entitlements that we cannot afford.

I will buy a Palisade when it sells for the normal historical Hyundai pricing, which is about 8% below MSRP.

 

[Eric2203]

I don't think there is a supply problem for the Palisade. There is a demand problem due to excess liquidity pumped into the economy. Some other brands have had supply problems, but I don't think that includes Hyundai (by their own claim). I didn't say it is has to do with politics, but it has to do with monetary policy by the Federal Reserve, and fiscal policy of the Congress and the President.

You literally said ”there is a supply problem” in post #35 in this thread. And I wasn’t talking about the Palisade specifically. Just in general.

If you say it has to do with policies, then you’re saying it has to do with politics, which is where policies are first articulated.

Either way, you’re still only talking about the US, which ignores the fact that this isn’t a US-specific issue, and therefore isn’t caused by US government policies. Artificially pumping up the economy isn’t just something that happened in the US, for one (and both political parties did it), and isn’t the only reason why there are supply problems, for second. Scarce supplies due to COVID lockdowns and restrictions around the world have a lot to do with that. Even without restrictions, people all over the world didn’t spend as much when COVID was rampant, resulting in more demand once COVID started receding. That was simple self-preservation, not government policies, and is a phenomenon that was seen all over the world. Savings went through the roof in most developed countries, resulting in a lot more disposable income being available now, causing this spike in demand.

Your statement vastly oversimplifies what is happening to the economy.

The Federal Reserve is an independent agency, although the Chairman was nominated by the previous President. You are the one who is making this political, not me. The Federal Reserve is out of their minds trying to flood the economy with liquidity when there are not enough workers to take the jobs that are open. There are 30% more job openings then there are unemployed people. As far as fiscal policy, the Congress and President are trying to flood the economy with even more entitlements that we cannot afford.

I will buy a Palisade when it sells for the normal historical Hyundai pricing, which is about 8% below MSRP.

So you’re not making this political, yet you end the first paragraph by blaming Congress and the President.

And again, oversimplification. It’s not just a matter of available workers vs job openings, it’s about WHICH jobs are open. Nobody wants to work in the service industry anymore, because it is one of the worst to work in (for many reasons), and it was made worse by COVID where these workers are among the most exposed.

 

[Alan_F]

You literally said ”there is a supply problem” in post #35 in this thread. And I wasn’t talking about the Palisade specifically. Just in general.

If you say it has to do with policies, then you’re saying it has to do with politics, which is where policies are first articulated.

Either way, you’re still only talking about the US, which ignores the fact that this isn’t a US-specific issue, and therefore isn’t caused by US government policies. Artificially pumping up the economy isn’t just something that happened in the US, for one (and both political parties did it), and isn’t the only reason why there are supply problems, for second. Scarce supplies due to COVID lockdowns and restrictions around the world have a lot to do with that. Even without restrictions, people all over the world didn’t spend as much when COVID was rampant, resulting in more demand once COVID started receding. That was simple self-preservation, not government policies, and is a phenomenon that was seen all over the world. Savings went through the roof in most developed countries, resulting in a lot more disposable income being available now, causing this spike in demand.

Your statement vastly oversimplifies what is happening to the economy.

So you’re not making this political, yet you end the first paragraph by blaming Congress and the President.

And again, oversimplification. It’s not just a matter of available workers vs job openings, it’s about WHICH jobs are open. Nobody wants to work in the service industry anymore, because it is one of the worst to work in (for many reasons), and it was made worse by COVID where these workers are among the most exposed.

There is a supply/demand problem because demand is outstripping supply. If I previously said there is a supply problem, I should have said supply problem given the increased demand. Hyundai has said that they are delivering all the vehicles that they originally planned to. I realize that is not true of some other automakers who have chip shortages, etc. But way more people are buying cars (or wanting to buy cars) than in previous years, partly due to higher stock market prices, higher real estate prices, higher wages, and COVID-19 relief money, that has created a sudden wealth effect in the economy. Plus, there was a lot of fraud in many cases when the government gave out money to compensate people for the pandemic. The reason why stock prices and real estate are so high, is that the Federal Reserve is artificially keeping interest rates low, which means the only way to invest and keep up with inflation is to invest in stocks. Artificially low interest rates also makes it easer to buy cars and homes.

The Federal Reserve is a non-partisan entity that manages monetary policy (mainly by manipulating the money supply), and is composed of multiple members. I believe that the Federal Reserve is mistaken about inflation (they think it is temporary) and mistaken about the job market (they think there are too many unemployed). So I believe that their continuation of pumping liquidity into the markets is a bad idea, given that it is causing the highest inflation in 30 years and there are now 30% more job openings in the USA than there are unemployed people who actually are looking for work. The Federal Reserve monetary policy consists of buying up government bonds on the open market (which pushes interest rates lower), in addition to setting the over-night lending rates for banks to almost zero. This has over-heated the economy.

Then there is fiscal policy (government spending). Both the past and current administration created gigantic spending programs to aid in the recovery of the pandemic, which I understand. But I think they went overboard when they started paying more in unemployment insurance benefits than workers were making when they were employed. This led to people not going back to work, and companies have labor shortages, which causes supply problems, which raises prices. The new proposals for additional government spending will create more inflation. I am not blaming any one political party, but obviously at this point only those in office right now (in both parties) can do anything about it.

Given that my Hyundai Genesis is in perfect working order, and only has $72K miles on the OD, and I only drive 2-3K miles per year these days, I am not going to pay MSRP or over for a vehicle at this time. But I can understand why others do that, especially if they need a new car.

 

[sarav]

I don't think there is a supply problem for the Palisade. There is a demand problem due to excess liquidity pumped into the economy. Some other brands have had supply problems, but I don't think that includes Hyundai (by their own claim). I didn't say it is has to do with politics, but it has to do with monetary policy by the Federal Reserve, and fiscal policy of the Congress and the President.

Which new policy in particular is affecting this?
Federal reserve has been printing money for a while from before 2021 which has contributed to inflation problem.
When you say Hyundai doesn’t have a problem, why are there only 2/3 new cars of each model at the dealership? I don’t think everybody who had some money decided to buy a Hyundai this year to cause this. The root cause is “global” supply chain and contrary to popular belief, we (US) cannot force the world logistics to bend to our will. There is no universal body to govern this supply chain problem.
Did you know the cost of a shipping container increased to $25000 from $2500 during this pandemic? You sure would blame the government for that, correct?

 

[Alan_F]

Which new policy in particular is affecting this?
Federal reserve has been printing money for a while from before 2021 which has contributed to inflation problem.
When you say Hyundai doesn’t have a problem, why are there only 2/3 new cars of each model at the dealership? I don’t think everybody who had some money decided to buy a Hyundai this year to cause this. The root cause is “global” supply chain and contrary to popular belief, we (US) cannot force the world logistics to bend to our will. There is no universal body to govern this supply chain problem.
Did you know the cost of a shipping container increased to $25000 from $2500 during this pandemic? You sure would blame the government for that, correct?

Yes, the Federal Reserve has been printing money for awhile, but its balance sheet of bonds it bought on the open market (with printed money) has risen from $4 trillion to $8 trillion. That is on top of the almost $30 trillion national debt (up from $10 trillion in 2008).

Yes, there is a supply/demand problem for the Palisade for a couple of reasons. From what Hyundai says it is not because they are producing less of them, but demand is higher. Some manufactures have had to curtail production due to parts shortages, but overall demand has risen due to extremely low interest rates, and excess liquidity in the market as a result of fiscal spending (like paying more in unemployment insurance than people where making when they were employed). Part of high demand for the Palisade is that it is a highly rated vehicle, but Hyundai dealers have historically sold vehicles for a pretty decent discount from MSRP, and now people are paying $5K more than MSRP for higher trim levels.

The government cannot directly improve the supply chain, but when the Fed is increasing the money supply because they think there is too much unemployment, and there really isn't too much unemployment, that creates a shortage of workers. In particular there are not enough truck drivers to move the containers from the docks of the receiving ports, and everything gets backed up. I heard that there are 60,000 truck driver jobs open in the US. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve and the US government are acting like unemployment is too high, when the fact is there are 1.3 jobs open for every 1 unemployed person. There is something wrong with the way the Federal Reserve calculates unemployment in the US, just like there is something wrong with the way they calculate inflation.

Last night I ate a "Five Guys" and got a hamburger, small fry, and regular drink, and it was $18.37. Two years ago it was about $13.50. Plus, when you pay with a credit card the card machine asks you to choose various tip amounts, and if you don't want to tip, you have hit additional buttons to get the screen with zero tip (Counter service only, and there are no waiters or waitresses at Five Guys).

I don't really want the Federal Reserve or US government to anything to fix the problem. Instead, they should stop doing things. For example, stop printing money and stop deficit spending. Otherwise I fear that we will see 2008 all over again. Sorry for being so off-topic, so I will not respond to this subject anymore, but I thought it would be rude to not respond to questions asked.

 

[Eric2203]

There is a supply/demand problem because demand is outstripping supply. If I previously said there is a supply problem, I should have said supply problem given the increased demand. Hyundai has said that they are delivering all the vehicles that they originally planned to. I realize that is not true of some other automakers who have chip shortages, etc. But way more people are buying cars (or wanting to buy cars) than in previous years, partly due to higher stock market prices, higher real estate prices, higher wages, and COVID-19 relief money, that has created a sudden wealth effect in the economy. Plus, there was a lot of fraud in many cases when the government gave out money to compensate people for the pandemic. The reason why stock prices and real estate are so high, is that the Federal Reserve is artificially keeping interest rates low, which means the only way to invest and keep up with inflation is to invest in stocks. Artificially low interest rates also makes it easer to buy cars and homes.

The Federal Reserve is a non-partisan entity that manages monetary policy (mainly by manipulating the money supply), and is composed of multiple members. I believe that the Federal Reserve is mistaken about inflation (they think it is temporary) and mistaken about the job market (they think there are too many unemployed). So I believe that their continuation of pumping liquidity into the markets is a bad idea, given that it is causing the highest inflation in 30 years and there are now 30% more job openings in the USA than there are unemployed people who actually are looking for work. The Federal Reserve monetary policy consists of buying up government bonds on the open market (which pushes interest rates lower), in addition to setting the over-night lending rates for banks to almost zero. This has over-heated the economy.

Then there is fiscal policy (government spending). Both the past and current administration created gigantic spending programs to aid in the recovery of the pandemic, which I understand. But I think they went overboard when they started paying more in unemployment insurance benefits than workers were making when they were employed. This led to people not going back to work, and companies have labor shortages, which causes supply problems, which raises prices. The new proposals for additional government spending will create more inflation. I am not blaming any one political party, but obviously at this point only those in office right now (in both parties) can do anything about it.

Given that my Hyundai Genesis is in perfect working order, and only has $72K miles on the OD, and I only drive 2-3K miles per year these days, I am not going to pay MSRP or over for a vehicle at this time. But I can understand why others do that, especially if they need a new car.

And yet again, you focus on the US, which means you’re ignoring the fact that this is not a US-specific problem. Meaning this problem wouldn’t be solved by simply changing what you think the Federal Reserve or government are doing wrong.

And cut the crap about unemployment benefits. An extra $300 wasn’t resulting in “more than people were making” and doesn’t get you very far (and if you don’t want $300 to represent a lot of money, maybe advocate for a minimum wage that equals a living wage instead of one that does not). Besides, that money has been gone for a while and the lack of workers is still an issue, which tells you that unemployment benefits isn’t the problem and never was. Contrary to the popular propaganda being peddled by certain media and a certain political wing, the vast majority of people do not actually want to stay unemployed and only live off benefits. As I already said, this is a more complex issue being seen in multiple countries (including the US), where people no longer want to do certain jobs. Mainly in the service industry. There are other reasons at play here: people want to be treated better by their employers and are no longer willing to take abuse or exploitation just for the sake of a paycheck when there is enough job availability out there that they can try their luck somewhere else. This is supply and demand that works in favor of workers for a change.

Maybe actually listening to what these people have to say (it has been reported if you took the time to listen) instead of simply blaming unemployment benefits would help you understand what is actually happening instead of these oversimplifications as to what is causing this (blaming the government is the easy way out).

Yes, the Federal Reserve has been printing money for awhile, but its balance sheet of bonds it bought on the open market (with printed money) has risen from $4 trillion to $8 trillion. That is on top of the almost $30 trillion national debt (up from $10 trillion in 2008).

Yes, there is a supply/demand problem for the Palisade for a couple of reasons. From what Hyundai says it is not because they are producing less of them, but demand is higher. Some manufactures have had to curtail production due to parts shortages, but overall demand has risen due to extremely low interest rates, and excess liquidity in the market as a result of fiscal spending (like paying more in unemployment insurance than people where making when they were employed). Part of high demand for the Palisade is that it is a highly rated vehicle, but Hyundai dealers have historically sold vehicles for a pretty decent discount from MSRP, and now people are paying $5K more than MSRP for higher trim levels.

The government cannot directly improve the supply chain, but when the Fed is increasing the money supply because they think there is too much unemployment, and there really isn't too much unemployment, that creates a shortage of workers. In particular there are not enough truck drivers to move the containers from the docks of the receiving ports, and everything gets backed up. I heard that there are 60,000 truck driver jobs open in the US. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve and the US government are acting like unemployment is too high, when the fact is there are 1.3 jobs open for every 1 unemployed person. There is something wrong with the way the Federal Reserve calculates unemployment in the US, just like there is something wrong with the way they calculate inflation.

Last night I ate a "Five Guys" and got a hamburger, small fry, and regular drink, and it was $18.37. Two years ago it was about $13.50. Plus, when you pay with a credit card the card machine asks you to choose various tip amounts, and if you don't want to tip, you have hit additional buttons to get the screen with zero tip (Counter service only, and there are no waiters or waitresses at Five Guys).

I don't really want the Federal Reserve or US government to anything to fix the problem. Instead, they should stop doing things. For example, stop printing money and stop deficit spending. Otherwise I fear that we will see 2008 all over again. Sorry for being so off-topic, so I will not respond to this subject anymore, but I thought it would be rude to not respond to questions asked.

Pay people more.
Get rid of tipping culture.
You’re still missing the big picture.

 

[sarav]

Contrary to the popular propaganda being peddled by certain media and a certain political wing

This right here is the problem. I would go one up and say : If people stopped watching late evening propaganda shows on both the right and left wings, we would be better off as a country. </EndArgument>

 

[Alan_F]

An extra $300 wasn’t resulting in “more than people were making” and doesn’t get you very far (and if you don’t want $300 to represent a lot of money, maybe advocate for a minimum wage that equals a living wage instead of one that does not).

If it is more profitable to not work and collect unemployment than to work, many (if not most) will not work, creating a labor shortage. I am not opposed to haven given everyone under a certain income the money they were given, but that should not be necessary anymore given the number of job openings.

The high inflation we are experiencing is not mainly the result of supply chain problems. It has more to do with extremely low interest rates.

 

[Eric2203]

If it is more profitable to not work and collect unemployment than to work

But this did not happen.

but that should not be necessary anymore given the number of job openings.

It hasn’t been happening for months, yet it hasn’t solved the worker problem. Conclusion: the extra money was not the problem.

The high inflation we are experiencing is not mainly the result of supply chain problems. It has more to do with extremely low interest rates.

The low interest rates were in place well before the inflation started climbing. As it turns out, inflation actually does have a lot to do with supply chain problems. The used car industry was the single largest contributor to inflation in April and May, and one of the largest since then. That is directly tied to a supply issue (including of new cars, since many turned to used cars instead due to poor availability of new ones), not to low interest rates.

 

[Alan_F]

But this did not happen.

It hasn’t been happening for months, yet it hasn’t solved the worker problem. Conclusion: the extra money was not the problem.

The low interest rates were in place well before the inflation started climbing. As it turns out, inflation actually does have a lot to do with supply chain problems. The used car industry was the single largest contributor to inflation in April and May, and one of the largest since then. That is directly tied to a supply issue (including of new cars, since many turned to used cars instead due to poor availability of new ones), not to low interest rates.

Yes it did happen, and a lot them have not gone back to work. Please explain how the unemployment rate is not zero, if there 1.3 job opening for each person not working. That is because they don't want to work.

There was also massive fraud with the Paycheck Protection Program (not including unemployment insurance). Even bank employees, who saw how easy it was to get free money, got some for themselves by setting up phony companies, and hundreds of them fired from just one bank who found out what was going on.

This is from the New York Times:
"15% of Paycheck Protection Program Loans Could Be Fraudulent, Study Shows, Some $76 billion of the program’s $800 billion in loans may have been taken improperly, a new paper concludes."

15% of Paycheck Protection Program Loans Could Be Fraudulent, Study Shows (Published 2021)

Some $76 billion of the program’s $800 billion in loans may have been taken improperly, a new paper concludes.

www.nytimes.com

According to CNBC business news, there are now 80,000 truck driver jobs open in the USA. This is a big part of the supply chain problem in the US, because they can't unload container ships unless there are truck drivers to take the existing containers sitting on the docks.

Dollar Tree just announced, that after 35 years of selling everything in their stores for $1.00, they are raising prices to $1.25 for every item. This is the end of the world as we know it.

 

[Eric2203]

Yes it did happen, and a lot them have not gone back to work. Please explain how the unemployment rate is not zero, if there 1.3 job opening for each person not working. That is because they don't want to work.

There was also massive fraud with the Paycheck Protection Program (not including unemployment insurance). Even bank employees, who saw how easy it was to get free money, got some for themselves by setting up phony companies, and hundreds of them fired from just one bank who found out what was going on.

This is from the New York Times:
"15% of Paycheck Protection Program Loans Could Be Fraudulent, Study Shows, Some $76 billion of the program’s $800 billion in loans may have been taken improperly, a new paper concludes."

15% of Paycheck Protection Program Loans Could Be Fraudulent, Study Shows (Published 2021)

Some $76 billion of the program’s $800 billion in loans may have been taken improperly, a new paper concludes.

www.nytimes.com

According to CNBC business news, there are now 80,000 truck driver jobs open in the USA. This is a big part of the supply chain problem in the US, because they can't unload container ships unless there are truck drivers to take the existing containers sitting on the docks.

Dollar Tree just announced, that after 35 years of selling everything in their stores for $1.00, they are raising prices to $1.25 for every item. This is the end of the world as we know it.

You haven’t read a word I said.

No, it did not happen. The vast majority of people did not make more on unemployment than when they were working. There are very few people who fell in that category, at lowest end of the wage ladder. Go look at the data instead of perpetuating this lie. It isn’t true.

As to why unemployment is not zero when there are more job openings, it’s a question that has been answered a billion times: the jobs don’t match the workers 1-to-1. Surely this isn’t the first time you heat this... Not every job is suitable to everyone (whether because of skill, physical ability, knowledge, training, etc.): you can’t fit every unemployed person into a job slot. And there are geographical variations: the ratio of workers vs. job openings isn’t the same everywhere in the US. Once again, you oversimplify to the extreme instead of actually looking at all the variables of a problem.

I’ve also already explained in this thread that there is a new trend happening where people are no longer tolerant of being exploited and are looking for the best job out there instead of sticking to where they’re at just for the sake of a paycheck. It’s being termed “The Great Resignation” (Google it). It’s not just happening in the US, but other developed countries as well. That is why a record 4.4 million people quit their jobs in September. And no, quitting doesn’t mean going on unemployment; it means switching jobs. Like I said before, this is supply and demand that is working in favor of the worker for a change.

What does fraud have to do with the subject of whether people who are unemployed are making more? Why are you even mentioning this? Is that supposed to justify not having this paycheck protection program? Last I checked, just because there are bad people trying to cheat the system doesn’t invalidate the whole thing when it clearly helped people. The bank employees you mention who scammed the system were certainly not the unemployed who are the ones this money is for. There are always a-holes out there - doesn’t mean everyone is one.

 

[Alan_F]

As to why unemployment is not zero when there are more job openings, it’s a question that has been answered a billion times: the jobs don’t match the workers 1-to-1. Surely this isn’t the first time you heat this... Not every job is suitable to everyone (whether because of skill, physical ability, knowledge, training, etc.): you can’t fit every unemployed person into a job slot. And there are geographical variations: the ratio of workers vs. job openings isn’t the same everywhere in the US. Once again, you oversimplify to the extreme instead of actually looking at all the variables of a problem.

The shortage of workers is mostly at the low end of the pay scale for unskilled, or semi-skilled workers.

What does fraud have to do with the subject of whether people who are unemployed are making more? Why are you even mentioning this? Is that supposed to justify not having this paycheck protection program? Last I checked, just because there are bad people trying to cheat the system doesn’t invalidate the whole thing when it clearly helped people. The bank employees you mention

Shirley you can't be serious. The people who have fraudulently taken $86 billion dollars (according to New York Times), don't need to work any time soon.

 

[Eric2203]

The shortage of workers is mostly at the low end of the pay scale for unskilled, or semi-skilled workers.

Oversimplifying once again. For example, healthcare is experiencing labor shortages and is hardly on the low-end of the pay scale. There are other examples.

Shirley you can't be serious. The people who have fraudulently taken $86 billion dollars (according to New York Times), don't need to work any time soon.

I don't even know what you're trying to say. The people who stole this money weren't the ones who needed it (bank workers in your example, who were clearly not unemployed because of the pandemic). What does that have to do with the fact that there are people out there who were helped by that money? What does that have to do with whether it contributed to a worker shortage? Just because there are thieves out there doesn't mean the financial help wasn't needed by a majority of the people who were eligible for it.

 

[steelers]

The dealer where I purchased...now adds $7000 to msrp..plus $999 dealer fee...plus $900 if paying with cash or draft...plus dealer add ons..

 

[Alan_F]

The dealer where I purchased...now adds $7000 to msrp..plus $999 dealer fee...plus $900 if paying with cash or draft...plus dealer add ons..

I guess they figure that people paying cash can afford an extra $900?

I remember when I bought a Mazda and Honda back in the 1970's and early 1980's when the Japanese self-imposed import quotas (to keep the US government from do that themselves), and everything was always at MSRP. But I never had to pay more than MSRP.

 

[Alan_F]

Oversimplifying once again. For example, healthcare is experiencing labor shortages and is hardly on the low-end of the pay scale. There are other examples.

I don't even know what you're trying to say. The people who stole this money weren't the ones who needed it (bank workers in your example, who were clearly not unemployed because of the pandemic). What does that have to do with the fact that there are people out there who were helped by that money? What does that have to do with whether it contributed to a worker shortage? Just because there are thieves out there doesn't mean the financial help wasn't needed by a majority of the people who were eligible for it.

Healthcare worker shortages (mostly nurses) have been around for awhile, and not related to the current shortages of low-skilled workers.

A lot of those who stole money were small business owners, or even those who created a small business (even sole proprietorship) just to steal the money. A lot of bank employees did loose their jobs because a lot bank branch offices were permanently closed, and most bank employees don't make much money.

 

[Eric2203]

Healthcare worker shortages (mostly nurses) have been around for awhile, and not related to the current shortages of low-skilled workers.

A lot of those who stole money were small business owners, or even those who created a small business (even sole proprietorship) just to steal the money. A lot of bank employees did loose their jobs because a lot bank branch offices were permanently closed, and most bank employees don't make much money.

And your point is? How does any of this relate to the subject at hand? What do small business owners/bank employees defrauding the system have to do with unemployed people getting legitimate money from that system? How does that relate to the fact that almost no unemployed people were actually making more money from extra unemployment assistance than they did when working, contrary to what you state? How does that relate to the fact that this extra money is therefore not why there is a shortage of workers? How does that relate to the fact that people are able to pick jobs with better conditions/benefits/money precisely because of the demand? How does that relate to the fact that this extra money is no longer available, yet the labor shortages are only getting worse?

And you're incorrect: while leisure/hospitality and manufacturing/logistics jobs represent about half of the labor shortages, the other half is state/local government, professional services, healthcare and everything else. Those are not bottom of the wage ladder jobs. As to healthcare labor shortages, they have actually been increasing compared to before COVID, partly because of burn-out. All of which demonstrates that this extra money was never the cause of labor shortage in the first place. Even if there is a small fraction of people who got similar income from being unemployed, there's no data that shows that they decided to stay unemployed instead of looking for a better-paying job. In fact, there is study after study after study that shows the exact opposite: unemployment assistance does not have an impact on hiring. The idea that it does is a myth that has never been supported by real data.

 

[Alan_F]

How does that relate to the fact that almost no unemployed people were actually making more money from extra unemployment assistance than they did when working, contrary to what you state?

I don't agree with that.

How does that relate to the fact that this extra money is therefore not why there is a shortage of workers? How does that relate to the fact that people are able to pick jobs with better conditions/benefits/money precisely because of the demand? How does that relate to the fact that this extra money is no longer available, yet the labor shortages are only getting worse?

The increase in wages is just a part of the highest inflation in 31 years.

Poll: 77% of Americans now say inflation is personally affecting them — and 57% blame Biden

More than three-quarters of Americans (77 percent) say inflation is affecting their lives as the holiday season begins, according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll — and a clear majority (57 percent) blame President Biden.

news.yahoo.com

A lot of people accumulated enough wealth via the government handouts that they don't intend to go back to work. Even though almost everyone on this forum can afford to pay $18.37 for a burger, small fries, and drink at Five Guys, even if we don't like it. But those whose pay has increased from $12 to $15 an hour cannot afford the inflation, not just on food and restaurants, but on rent, cars, and everything else. What appeared to be a strong desire few years ago to move manufacturing jobs back to the USA, is going to stop dead in its tracks. I am not talking about things like computer chip manufacturing, but low-skilled manufacturing jobs are going to stay offshore, even if they just move from China to Vietnam and other places.

 

[Eric2203]

I don't agree with that.

Then back it up with data.

A lot of people accumulated enough wealth via the government handouts that they don't intend to go back to work.

Where is the data that shows this? It’s complete nonsense.

Of course, manufacturing jobs are not coming back to the US. They never were. But what does that have to do with the subject of labor shortage, which was the topic at hand?